I want to make clear that Joe Sacco did not say, “As Goes India, so goes the world.” That’s just my summation, my interpretation, as trite as it may sound. But I’m sure Joe would acknowledge my attempt at finding the universal truths in his latest work of comics journalism: The Once and Future Riot, published by Henry & Holt, releasing on October 14, 2025 and available for pre-order. Well, we had a most agreeable conversation. No doubt, Joe Sacco is a towering figure in comics, known for such landmark work as Palestine and Footnotes in Gaza. My main concern was simply to focus on the new book at hand and resist getting caught up in so many other things we could have talked about. But that was easy since the point I kept coming back to is that this new book has so much to say and proves timeless and highly relevant.
“They are rich people. We are poor people.”
This was an easygoing conversation, just like you’d expect in a coffee shop. I wasn’t there to argue this or that fiery point. I was there to, I suppose, coax along insights. A revelation for me, when I think about it, is that Joe Sacco is quite a regular guy in the sense that he’s not there to persuade you with any sort of slanted rhetoric. No “slanters,” just a progression of logical observations. All of this in the service of talking about this book, an exploration of political violence and focusing on a prime example in India: the communal hatred between Hindus and Muslims that led to the 2013 riots in Uttar Pradesh. How, and why, did this happen? All of this emerges in layers within layers.
“No one is left in the middle.”
Here’s the thing to keep in mind about any book by Joe Sacco: the background is essential because that’s where the meat of the story resides, made up of numerous personal stories. Joe’s tried and true method has been to go about capturing these moments with all their subtle nuances in words and pictures which provides an uncanny result by a reporter who literally has gone beyond the initial hard news to uncover the sort of details that can so easily get lost in the shuffle. During our conversation, I was struck by Joe’s patient and calm delivery, his response to my sometimes excitable questions. He was so engaged in the moment, which is undoubtedly the ideal state you want your guest to be in, that we were able to truly enjoy a conversation and let ideas flow.
The Lie becomes Truth.
One of the most interesting things about this new book is that it poses a lot of questions, more than we can hope to fully answer although we will keep on seeking solutions. As I suggest, this is a book not only about India but about the state of the whole world. Everywhere, we must confront demagoguery; we must confront those with power who prey on those without power; and we must confront our lesser selves who contribute to a polarized society. I shared with Joe what I believed to be the book’s conclusion: a primary way to end the vicious cycle of political violence among a nation’s people is to have a government that the people can rely upon and trust. He asked me if I thought that was his conclusion and I readily said, yes. And he agreed. We played with the thread of that idea. Joe shared that he thought of himself as a Democrat, but with a small “d,” as far from the established Democratic Party as possible. What other options did one have within the current reality? A very good question.
War on Gaza
I brought up something during our conversation that I didn’t think I would, and then I did. At the time that Joe Sacco did his War on Gaza limited series, published by The Comics Journal, I was on the fence about it because I feared it would help, in its own modest way, to contribute to a Democrat loss in the presidential election. It feels like a lifetime ago but, back then, Americans were facing a very close election, which it was, if you admit Trump’s 77 million to Harris’s 75 million votes was close, which it was, the closest one this century. With hindsight, I conclude that Sacco’s comics revisit of Gaza, his calling out genocide, was an honest response that made sense and still does. Democrats are far from perfect but, compared to the current administration, well, you tell me.
Ultimately, Joe and I both let out a collective sigh at confronting the hard truth that the big, truly substantial, leaps of progress still lay way ahead in the distant future. And yet the effort must continue towards that future, no matter how elusive, no matter how far out of reach, it may be.
Enjoy the video interview. As always, your views, LIKES and COMMENTS are very welcome and help us continue to do what we do here at Comics Grinder.
